四十歲

男人四十歲,
 
 我當然明白要達到思想交流必然有一定的難度, 但唔通覺得難就唔去要求?
 自知能力少, 不過去改變別人思想, 但我亦希望可以用這個方法教給所有物質人仕, 最少能夠改變身邊的一個已經好滿足了.

bee80
 
 妳可否說一說妳如何可以改變身邊的一個的經驗嗎！

我從來都冇諗過可以改變一個人，亦都冇打算過會咁做。
 
 bee80
 我都好想聽聽你點樣可以改變你自邊的一個？Let's share ...

e....今日比昨日靜左好多喎
 where are me40too and 40+? I like to see their conversation. Lots of good points to learn from their conversation!

me40too,
 男女大不同？我都有睇過這本書。It is very good and very ture!

其實所改變既都係好minor既事, 例如要佢點care對方, 對金錢既利用, 有d咩說話係男女朋友唔可以講.... 我會係當佢小朋友咁教, 如果佢做錯, 我會話佢知唔岩, 下次唔好。
 好彩, 當我有耐心同平靜既tune同佢講野, 通常都接受. 或者我都算好彩掛。

bee80
 
 請問妳有無結過婚？

冇呀, 所以我唔敢講太多, 因為相比起你地,我經驗尚淺

江山易改、品性難移！真係要做的話，我應為改變自已去適應別人容易過改變別人適應自已！

係, 所以我就想講, 其實好多人係揀配偶之前係未曾三思。
 有朋友教過我, 0係想搵男朋友之前, 一定要清楚知道自己想要咩既人。
 例如list out 十個條件, 當佢出現既時候, 你就可以知道佢係咪你想要既mr.right.
 去supermarket前都應該知道自己要買咩先入, 如果唔係, 到最後你只會買左d無聊野返屋企。

bee80:
 
 我明白你想做到既野 (改下人地希望大家適應得好d) 但我好亦想指出一個實...人馬女講得岩, (universally true ga) 呢個世界冇一個人可以改變另一個人, 單憑你一言兩語就想咁做係有d妄想 (pls excuse me to be very frank here)
 
 你要係咁睇: 你發覺對方改變左 becos of your words 唔係真係你講既野有用, 你"改"左佢...change 係出自個人, 即係當一個人"認為" or "睇到" 一d change 係對佢有利既時候, 佢自然會 change, 唔駛人講同教...
 
 所以, 佢之所以 change 係佢仲覺得佢 treasure 大家呢段關係, 佢仲想 keep 住個 relationship, that's why he is willing to do something to keep it...so 換個角度講, 係要令自己永遠響對方心目中有個價值, then 佢就會為左保存呢個價值而去不斷做d野去 keep it 的了, 因此, 我地能夠做既係 (1) change myself 令自己更 valuable to the other one (in whatever ways la...當然睇下對方緊既係咪自己可以 provide 到先啦, 唔得咪 learn 囉 ) or (2) 令佢睇到一d佢以前唔 aware 既野, 佢一定要睇得到先可以做得到....睇唔到改個個 "benefit", then who will change?
 
 
 我會係當佢小朋友咁教, 如果佢做錯, 我會話佢知唔岩, 下次唔好。
 ==> some feedback: you have to be careful here, I dun think men would like to have a 2nd mother , 你依家做既行為即係仲想佢多一個阿媽...so you know what boys will react when they face a "principle-oriented" mother? 你見好多 case 好多男人就係咁...寧願去揾個冇腦既, 因為只有咁佢地先可以"揸主意" 而唔係任由人地去控制佢地去做野 (e.g. 點洗錢) ...You ought to respect the point of "individualism" here....佢之所以做某d行為一定有其原因, 你係要令佢睇到佢某d行為佢令你唔舒服響邊, 又或者係唔係真係咁令你唔舒服? e.g. d 錢係佢既, 佢點駛..well, 佢開心咪得囉, 又唔係問你借...你都要管, so put yourself in the other's shoes, 你阿媽 um 你駛錢既方法...will you feel happy?
 
 That's where most conflicts come from, kind of "forcing" the other to live in your own style...impossible ga...自尋煩惱而已, 你依家未結婚可能都未咁覺既, 若真係結埋婚第日為隻牙刷放響邊都要 feedback 咁就麻煩了...
 
 you get my point here? :)

我明白了, 多謝你比我既意見..
 正如我所講 , 其實如果對方既思想同我係好唔同的話, 我基本上已經唔會選擇佢係我終生伴侶. match唔倒唯有唔結婚...(暫時我都仲係咁諗, 唔知老左會唔會怕寂寞呢)

bee80
 
 你個朋友幾多歲....有 another half 未先...? 我咁問因為我覺得佢都好"理想化" 啊...婚姻/愛情唔係買層樓, 我想要個乜乜乜, 計哂數咁...響你要求人地要乜乜乜前, 你又認為你可以俾到乜乜乜人呢...所謂你揀人, 人揀你而已, 根本冇 perfect solution, 呢個亦係 interpersonal relationship 最可愛亦可以係最痛苦既地方, cos you will never know what you will get at the end.
 
 例如list out 十個條件, 當佢出現既時候, 你就可以知道佢係咪你想要既mr.right.
 ==> 我會睇到 if 佢真係咁做, 將來會有兩個後果 (1) 揾左個吉, 因為人地 fit 佢十個條件時佢又未必岩人啦..咁揾法...唔知 80 歲搞唔搞得掂 (2) 以為揾到, but 好多時"行為"/喜好響拍拖早期係可以隱藏 (or 唔明顯) 的, 你以為揾到, 所謂 "相見好, 同住難" , 到時你就會知你以為有既野根本就唔存在....重要既係大家要學去睇對方睇緊既野先有用 (當然仍有 bottom line, 好似我咁..已經俾人 challenge 緊, 所以先辛苦) then 行為自會相近, 相處就冇問題
 
 拍拖唔同 mathematics, 唔係一條算式 If A, then B 既, 邊可以咁計??....一段關係當中可以出無限個 unexpectancies, so how can you set criterias? 你今日話要對你好, 一陣揾到個真係對你好了, 但冇上進心, then 如何...? 又要 A 又要 B 的話就又要問問自己 what have I done or how could I do to keep such relationship la...凡事都係雙方面, 唔係一味要求人咁咁咁, otherwise 對方會好辛苦

我30,同過42age的女人ml,覺好正

bee80
 
 智者千慮、必有一失！人會隨著年紀將要求條件逐步降低。

我知道人揀我, 我揀人, 但當然我所講既並唔係咁極端, 要有錢有樓有車, 個種啦, 我要既, 可能係:對我好, 孝順, 識得理財....
 basic條件都冇既, 揀左佢咪盞自己受苦

岩岩同男朋友argue, 佢話想同我分手. 好無奈

time of reply: 2007-04-19 16:43 pm by me40too <== very agreed of what u said. :)

bee80
 男女朋友之間，argue 實會有。但係當argue 的問題係 involve 到價值觀，咁就會諗清楚... 兩個人仲應唔應該係咪一齊

bee80:
 
 對我好, 孝順
 ==> 淨係呢d都夠你煩架喇....well...How to define 對我好, 孝順?? 你心中既對你好係日日陪住你, 打電話比你 update you where he is? 但我又可以話你知, 好多男人心目中 "對你好" 係 = 揾多d錢讓你過得生活好, 唔花言巧言, 四維 gup 女, 但卻唔慣打電話, 亦唔太 enjoy always 兩個人痴到實, etc...so how could two of you balance? Of course you can "tell" him that you want him to be this this this, 咁....頭幾次都聽既, 一定聽, 但隨著日子一久, 性格係 preference, if 個個人一向都係一個較自我既人, then 佢就算今次記得打, 下次都會唔記得啦, 咁點算...?? 又唔開心了?? Then 耐性對方都會好有挫折感 - 覺得 "點解我做左咁多野老婆都唔滿意既" ? 在佢黎講, 你覺得好簡單既事 (打個電話有幾難) 有d人真係可以係好難先記得去做...then what to do?
 
 即係好似個個人本來係用左手既, 你成日叫佢用右手就你, 咁一次兩次都話得 je, 若次次都係咁, 長時間係咁, 佢一來就會辛苦, 二來佢就會諗, 點解次次都係我要用右手, 而唔係你試下用左手呢...之後就係...佢響出面遇到一個唔駛迫佢用右手, or even 肯去學用左手既, 咁你諗下會有咩事發生呢...??
 
 So you see the point here...好多野係會隨時間大家都要 adapt 既, 只要你地仲係鍾意對方, care about each other, 你地就會願意去 "adjust expectation" .....只要唔係 touch on 最痛既 expectation, that things could always be adjusted, 不過問題係...係咪雙方都有一起去行前一步呢...??
 
 佢話想同我分手. 好無奈
 ==> sorry to hear that...bee80 .. 慢慢黎啦, 我睇得出你係一個聰明人, so 永遠 try to 睇野睇兩面啦....find out why he wants to 分手先啦...

我覺得 me40too 好 mature. 仲睇問題睇得好透。認真佩服...

＞＞＞　唔好咁悲觀啦．咁多婚姻失敗可能就係以為有得揀離婚．如果你沒有這念頭，當你太太是父母兄弟兒女般，你地的關係是不可分割的．你可能另有體會．
 
 咁咪即是做假面夫妻囉！妳知假面夫妻是什麼嗎，就是妳所講當太太做父母兄弟般，平時只要大家安安穩穩，客客氣氣，你不要煩我我也不會煩妳，在別人面前是一對好夫妻，但在家就各自收行，當然思想亦會各走極端！總而言之，就是維持一個別人眼中正常的家，底線就是不要做出令任何一方覺得太難堪的事情！問題是兄弟兒女是血脈相連永不可分割，而夫妻只是兩個陌生人因緣份走在一起，當愛與慾都淡化誓去時，婚姻的義意是否還全在！不分開只是比兒女有一個可以安穩成長的地方吧了！
 
 >>> 不是這樣.世上沒有兩個我.就算有血緣,每個人性格,生活習慣,生活目標一定有分別.不過一齊相處,你會自然地給他們空間尊重佢地的生活方式.夫婦相處之道亦一樣.當愛轉化為感情同慾淡下來之後.夫婦是生命的伴侶一起走人生路.互相尊重而唔係要對方跟你的一套處世方式.你可以唔approve佢某些行為.不過某程度上你要尊重佢的選擇.當然一起生活佢的選擇多少一定會影響到你.大家要找個方法去compromise.

人馬女:
 
 First of all, thanks for your support sin..:)
 
 但係當argue 的問題係 involve 到價值觀，咁就會諗清楚... 兩個人仲應唔應該係咪一齊
 ==> Correct...so what I am trying to do is to think of a way how to let the other one see what I see, then we can think of a way to work out a solution? 可惜我睇人, 人地唔睇我既 value 喇...好無奈
 
 在我只係真係好想搞清楚係咪無論點佢都唔會睇得到我既 hurt 係好有理由, 唔死心也在此, 因為自問我盡哂力去 adjust my own expectation, 但當永遠只是一個人在做的話, 係真係會好 tired... 係既話....想唔放手都唔得了, right?

我覺得 me40too 好 mature
 ==> 因為我老啦嘛....嗚嗚~~~ :(

可惜我睇人, 人地唔睇我既 value 喇...好無奈 <== 我都有同感，不過唔好灰心，人地睇唔到你既好，係人地既損失。我成日都咁樣安慰自己架..haha

價值觀? 我唔知今次關唔關事, 但我知每次我同佢講到結婚呢個話題, 就會argue... 原因係, 我而家先26歲, 大學讀完書都只係3年幾, 工又未搵倒份做長. 我邊會諗結婚呢? 但佢就話我: if you dont have marriage in mind, then you are not my kind of gal.
 
 咁同價值觀有冇關呢?
 
 me40too
 我明白了, 可能我而家同佢只係拍得幾個月, 佢都仲好聽我話, 不過我都知人會係慢慢懶落黎.. 佢已經一次又一次challenge我bottom line

me40too,
 我都一把年紀喇，但係我就冇你睇問題睇得咁透切。我真係好欣賞你所講既，從中我學到好多。Thank you. :)

bee80
 how old is ur bf? hope u don't mind I'm asking.

大家好, 我亦快到40了
 
 睇到你地所寫的post, 多少都發生在自己身上
 
 我現在已經經常想, 到40時會如何呢.....總覺得是女性的一個心理關口,
 自己應如何去迎接40的到來呢

he is 27

haha...women time here now...d 女人出哂黎喇...hoho...
 
 人馬女:
 
 係人地既損失。我成日都咁樣安慰自己架
 ==> 唉...同自己講 this phrase 一次就得, 兩次就得, 到第三次..我都難免開始問自己: "唔通真係我自己好唔妥.."??? 我都好灰心, 就如我以前講...有意興闌珊之感...同埋開始對自己更冇自信...

bee80,
 27? 咁都好細姐？你地講到結婚就 argue。咁你地有冇好好傾過大家 target 係幾多歲結婚？

唉.... 我收工啦, 有機會明天再傾, byebye

by 37女 - 04/19/07 17:52take it easy, 30 can be 一個心理關口 too
 
 you were OK with it, then

me40too,
 我都好明白你既心情，但係我始終相信，呢個世界上起碼會有一個人識得欣賞你，只係依家未遇到姐... 係咪好阿Q?? hehe

bee80,
 off work on time? so envy!!!

me40too
 
 我都好灰心, 就如我以前講...有意興闌珊之感...同埋開始對自己更冇自信...
 ==> 只係緣份未到jar, 每個人的際與都不同, 無需灰心

37女
 我都曾經同你一樣。不過依家越接近40...我更加冇左果種恐懼。因為我已經睇化左，40對我黎講，只係一個數字...

me40too
 
 by 37女 - 04/19/07 17:52take it easy, 30 can be 一個心理關口 too
 ==> 30過完又到40
 
 you were OK with it, then
 ==> 希望啦, thanks you

過左30之後，d 時間過得快到嚇死人...

人馬女
 
 睇到你所寫的, 希望我可以學你一樣

轉眼就快另一個10年.. haha... 真係人生苦短！

37女
 放心，當你一齊睇化時，你就可以好似我咁...:)

I have to go too lu...hehe..
 
 Nice talking to you all here..下次再 chat 過啦..

今時今日，仲有呢d工？真係好！ok, chat later. 88

今日又要OT...慘！

me40too.....bye bye
 
 人馬女
 
 放心，當你一齊睇化時，你就可以好似我咁...:)
 ==> 就係未睇化, 先擔心.
 
 今日又要OT...慘！
 ==> 唔慘...大把人陪你...起碼有我陪...haha

37女
 真係好，有你陪我。你會OT到幾點？

人馬女
 我走啦, 下次再傾吧. bye bye

37女
 88